Problem Getting Into Reverse - Clutch?

[Buncers]

Having intermittent problems getting into reverse with engine running. No problem with engine off.

 

Phoned a few clutch places, they all claim new clutch required and no adjustment possible because all hydraulic.

 

I've seem some posting claiming adjustment is possible - is it?

 

Also one garage suggested hydraulic problem - may need bleeding - how easy is it to get to the bleed nipple on bell housing?

 

Advice appreciated !!

[Guest neil_wiles]

On the early TDi models IIRC the bleed nipple is on a long pipe and protrudes up into the engine bay from the bell housing at the front to the right of the turbo pipes and under the rubber gaiter.

 

Sorry only from memory but I used it on my 1999 TDi to bleed the clutch for the same reason, 4 years old fluid and air and water had gradually built up in the fluid, it gave me another 2 years out of the clutch, 220k miles....

[Buncers]

Thanks Neil - I'll try bleeding it, worth a try

 

Can I get at the bleed nipple from the engine bay or is it an under car job?

 

Is it on the right or left side of the engine bay looking down?

 

Rubber gaiter? Which one?

[Guest neil_wiles]

The pipes come off the slave cylinder and out through the gearbox housing.

[Buncers]

Is this it?

 

Along side the starter motor (looking down into engine bay)

 

Sorry about picture quality - only had camera phone available

[Guest neil_wiles]

I think thats it bud its been a couple of years as I have a new one now, and thats about to get a clutch I think.

[Buncers]

Managed to bleed it - not easy - not enough room to even fit a spanner (8 mm this time).

 

Had to remove the following:-

 

1) The undertray, because I dropped the spanner about four times.

2) The cable ducting thing on top of the starter motor - to get more access

3) The Air filter cover and hose at the back of it (with MAF) to get access to the fluid reservoir

4) The bulk head shield thing for the same reason.

 

Not sure if it has improved the problem or not as yet.

 

Why did Ford make these simple jobs so difficult??? I can't imagine it being any easier for a mechanic.

[raymac]

The same reason most manufacturers do it so as to make it far to difficult for people like us to have a go ourselves and have to take it to the dealer so they can rip us off :lol: most cars nowadays have the slave cylinder inside the gearbox but not so many years ago they were on the outside so if they leaked it was a easy seal overhaul now it's a box out job and whilst it's out it's going to need a new clutch also sir and you can see the pound signs in there eyes as soon as you mention clutch :lol: so lets hope you are a lucky bleeder :) :)

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Have added some better photos

[NikpV]

Have added some better photos

 

 

neat - how did you upload two images into one post and did it automatically give you thumbnail size?

 

ok don't worry I've seen what has changed

Edited May 21, 2006 by NikpV

[Buncers]

Still having original problem of occassionally not being able to get into reverse when engine running.

 

Otherwise clutch seems fine. Pedal is OK and no apparent slippling.

 

 

All clutch centres I have contacted just want to change the clutch.

 

Would appreciate any other suggestions.

[west]

this could be a weakening pressure plate on the clutch.

 

i have this problem on my Mazda (117000 miles on original clutch!!)

 

new clutch i'm afraid

[Bigjeeze]

I am not sure how we get to a clutch problem when it is difficult to get into gear.

 

If after bleeding, the slave/master cylinder works fine in all forward gears and doesn't have an unusual bite or is slipping or dragging,then it seems to me there is another problem.

 

In the vast majority of cases when you select reverse you are stationary - so it sounds more like a synchro ring - or possibly even a Gear change cable on it's way out. The fact that it is easy to get into gear with the engine stopped doesn't change that or prove a dodgy clutch.

 

To check for slippage drive about 20mph engage 5th and apply some gas - if it either struggles or stalls - the clutch is fine - If the revs increase you have a slipping clutch.

 

A dragging clutch is where the clutch plate sticks on the shaft and so is difficult to disengage drive. Your fault doesn't sound like either of these to me.

 

Re check the hydraulics and then look at the cable selector mechanism.

[Bigjeeze]

The same reason most manufacturers do it so as to make it far to difficult for people like us to have a go ourselves and have to take it to the dealer so they can rip us off :48: most cars nowadays have the slave cylinder inside the gearbox but not so many years ago they were on the outside so if they leaked it was a easy seal overhaul now it's a box out job and whilst it's out it's going to need a new clutch also sir and you can see the pound signs in there eyes as soon as you mention clutch :16: so lets hope you are a lucky bleeder -_- :(

 

 

I think actually , that it's the parts manufacturers and retailers as well as the mechanics who are ripping us off here. The design of the clutch is excellent. How often have you had to do anything to an externally mounted clutch slave? They are normally very reliable - lasting for years at a time.

 

From a design point of view its a brilliant idea and saves time and money on the production line. Don't forget these cars are assembled on a line with all the necessary machinery and the people putting these things to gether only ever put them together they never have to remove the individual parts.

 

All that is happening here is the ususal form of robbery whereby Garages are making an absolute fortune out of us all. In the early 1980's I used to work for VW dealers running parts depts - and of course as I did the ordering form VAG I could see the mark up on various parts - it was and still is huge. Engine parts would be in the order of 30% Body panels 50% exhausts 60& and so on. It used to upset the sales director that the parts and service department made the company more profit than the sales of the new cars.

 

Thats why this forum is so important - we have the opportunity to learn how to do it for ourselves and say bollocks to the rip off mechanics.

[sepulchrave]

Synchro....on reverse gear??????Are you sure????????

 

However linkage adjustment sounds a much more likely candidate!

[west]

if the diaphram (plate) spring(s) are worn, they will not push the friction plate away from the flywheel.

and will mean the clutch will drag.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

[Bigjeeze]

if the diaphram (plate) spring(s) are worn, they will not push the friction plate away from the flywheel.

and will mean the clutch will drag.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/clutch.htm

 

 

Not quite right. When you put your foot on the clutch pedal the hydraulics act to apply force to the pressure plate - which warps the springs or compresses according to type, which then releases the pressure on the driven plate thus removing the drive from the engine/gearbox. If the springs are weakened then it's true the clutch could drag but that doesn't explain why it only does it in reverse gear. If it were doing it in the forward gears I would agree - particularly as in this case the vehicle is stationary when engaging reverse gear- and if as appears to be the case the drive engages and disengages properly and no signs of drag are exhibited - I still think that this is not the problem.

 

I may be wrong about synchro on reverse - although it's not rare at all - but I still think this is a selector mechanism issue.

[raymac]

If it is selecting forward gears ok when driving but it is crunching when selecting reverse then iid be inclined to think it is something other than the clutch , i had a similiar problem with my passat and when i dipped the clutch i would wait 2/3 seconds then engage reverse and no probs with crunching after that, might be worth a blast :5:

[west]

I'm no expert, so all comments are probably valid.

 

But, if the diaphram is worn and the clutch is dragging, then the lack of syncro on reverse will cause problems. all the other gears have a syncro which helps if the clutch drags except reverse.

 

maybe i'm wrong, but it is just an opinion.

[tim-spam]

If reverse gear has no synchromesh, and if it is crunching when selecting reverse, then the reason is that the input shaft is still turning, which means that the clutch is dragging. If the drag is slight, the synchromesh on the forward gears would be able to stop the input shaft from turning and allow the gear to be selected. However, if the clutch is dragging badly such that the synchro rings can not slow the input shaft down sufficiently, the gear will become difficult (or impossible) to select, accompanied by the sound of scraping synchro rings. On level ground, the car may even start to creep backwards, assuming that reverse gear has synchromesh - if not, the gear will crunch.

 

If the clutch is dragging only occasionally, it may be oil contamination - is there any oil leaking from between the engine and gearbox? If this is the case, a temporary improvement can sometimes be achieved by slipping the clutch in a high gear to heat it up and "burn off" the oil - don't overdo it though! Another possiblity is that the friction faces are rusty - has the car been left standing for extended periods? If this is the case, it may get better on its own with regular use.

 

Hope this helps.

[Buncers]

Guys - thanks for all the comments

 

Just to straighten out a few points.

 

I DO NOT get any CRUNCHING. When trying to put into reverse, it is occassionally impossible, will not go in (no crunch), sometime will go in with some force (still no crunch), and also most times no problem.

 

Forward gears no problems and no crunching.

 

Have tried the clutch slipping test, high gear, accelerating from low speed, can't detect any slipping.

 

No oil leaks visible.

 

Guess I'll have to bite the bullet and get a garage to look at it.

[west]

sounds like a problem on the 'gate'

Linkages etc it could be as per other suggestions.

 

money, money,money.ooh ahh...........................................

[tim-spam]

When you try to select reverse, is there any noise from the gearbox - caused by the synchro rings trying to slow the input shaft. Another thing to try next time it happens is to select a forward gear first - this will stop the input shaft from turning - and then immediately try to select reverse again. If this works, it would tend to confirm the diagnosis of a slight clutch drag. In addition, if this does work, you may decide just to live with it, assuming that the problem is not too serious or too frequent.

 

Also, if you can select reverse easily with the engine off, this would tend to rule out the gear linkage.

[sepulchrave]

Guys, there is NO SYNCHROMESH fitted to reverse gears, it doesn't matter how many times you say it it will NEVER be right!

 

There CANNOT be any load on the drivetrain because you are changing into reverse from neutral. Try driving forwards slightly then changing straight into reverse...there did you enjoy the expensive noises it just made? :16:

 

If you two want to troll about on the internet you will find this to be true. :16:

[Guest 3.5bullet]

Guys, there is NO SYNCHROMESH fitted to reverse gears, it doesn't matter how many times you say it it will NEVER be right!

 

There CANNOT be any load on the drivetrain because you are changing into reverse from neutral. Try driving forwards slightly then changing straight into reverse...there did you enjoy the expensive noises it just made? :16:

 

If you two want to troll about on the internet you will find this to be true. :2:

 

 

i beg to differ the Ford VTX75 5 speed gearbox has synchromesh on all ratios including reverse :16: